We're opening things up to a different kind of article today. While Titan Owners Club is still searching for a forum setup to deal with these kinds of discussions, we wanted to throw open the flood gates a bit to let you guys discuss a change that came through Chapter Approved 2017 to the Titans.
Many of Forge Worlds biggest units got beaten with the "points increase bat"; some of them quite severely. TOC's main focus is on the Imperium and Chaos Titans, which saw big points increases. We can't give you the points without running afoul of GW and then receiving a conversation from them, but what we can say is that each Titan class was raised by quite a lot, with the Warhound points increasing 33 percent, the mighty Warlord going up an astonishing 50 percent, and the Reaver climbing even higher by 67 percent!
These changes are for 8th edition 40k only and don't affect the Horus Heresy Titan points and stats. Many among the community have already expressed that Titans were overcosted to start and easier to kill, and these changes don't take the sting out of that sentiment and instead worsens it. Curiously, the Titans' power levels weren't adjusted for this change, creating the wonder if this change could have been made strictly to reduce their use in tournament play.
What do you guys think or feel on this subject? Is it fair to Titan players? Does it address a proper balance issue? Let us know below in the comments section.
**We're opening the door to comments both supportive and critical of these changes because we want honest opinions and thoughts on what has recently happened. This topic is not meant to be a forum by which to bash GW, the game, or one another's thoughts.
Seeing as how Titans are pretty much Apoc type units I don't see it being that large of an issue and since points are typically looked at in tourny play stick with power level as you stated. In my area power levels are strictly used unless people are working their "list". I just dislike the loss of template weapons for Titans in Apoc games, it was the Titans that would wipe out huge chucks of the table to help the Apoc game move along.
ReplyDeleteI do not plan on bringing Titans to any sort of 40k event anymore. The current rules do not promote Titan gameplay apart from whoever shoots first wins. As such my Titans are now restricted to 30k.
ReplyDeleteI'm still considering the ramifications here, but I do know this. In my area, I haven't had the good fortune of finding an opponent in my gaming club who can manage or is willing to construct a force to allow my Titans to Walk. In lieu of this change, their likelihood of hitting the table here is SIGNIFICANTLY lower. I'm glad that they were purchased for the modeling project and lore implications rather than as army components.
ReplyDeleteI have played once with my reaver and i honestly don't know what people are talking about.
ReplyDeleteIt needed a hefty points nerf. There is very little/ nothing that can easily kill a reaver at less than 3000 points. Powerclaw, gattling blaster and double laser destructors can reliably kill 2 units of even heavily armoured t4 models, and very few weapons are strong enough to wound on 4+. You can always weather 1 turn od firing unless you turned round and said "i am taking a titan, take only things that do shots that will Definately wound a titan.
I'm going to agree that the Reaver in particular needed the points adjustment that it got. It was basically the Warlord Lite when you looked at the wounds (10 wound difference isn't much) and its damage output. That one needed a change. But I feel they should have left the Warlord alone (or maybe a small adjustment) and adjusted the Warhound down about 300 points. Titans are actually a lot more killable than they used to be in the new system.
DeleteHowever, I do like that they are at least looking into the balance issue.
I think the main issue here is that by increasing the points to this level they are effectively relegating them to apocalypse games....however, the points cost is not balanced so in an apocalypse game the Titans are no longer effective against 'regular' super heavies... as an example, for the price of 1 T'aunar Supremacy suit an imperial opponent could take 4 Shadowswords, which should be able to take the T'au suit down in short order.
ReplyDeleteIt might have been better to introduce a new key word e.g 'God Machine' which were restricted to Apocalypse games but at least would be balanced against the 'lower level' super heavies.
Interestingly enough, Chapter Approved says for Apocalypse not to use the points and instead use the power rating for army selection. In that way, the points jump does nothing for Apoc games if you follow GW's advice on it since the power ratings weren't changed.
DeleteI agree with you that it feels like they firmly relegated Titans and their xenos counterparts to Apoc games with this change and that theses changes, unintentional or not, favor the GW plastic super-heavies in particular.
Titan rules, especially void shields and macro weapons are more problematic than just the points values. Instead of an Inv save that worked against mortal wounds, voids ought to have been a second health bar that had to be drained before the titan started taking wounds. Say 15 for the Warhound, 30 for the reaver, and 45 for the warlord. Have shield generators regen d6 at the start of each turn each, and you lose generators as you take damage.
ReplyDelete